Now 77, Joe K. was a successful senior vice president at a
major Utility during its most challenging period. He exhibited every
characteristic of every definition of leadership throughout that time.
I figured he'd had about twelve years to reflect on his leadership and
probably had arrived at some conclusions on the topic.
So yesterday we played catch-up over a long lunch. His interview was the first in a series to gather real-life experiences for a collaborative publishing venture. The final product (book) will give readers a look into how the mind processes leader-related experiences and then how you can apply the outcomes in practice.
What nuggets did my client-turned-friend have to share from eight decades of life and leadership?
1. "Leadership is either in your DNA or it isn't."
Ouch. Was he saying that all of those "You Too Can Be A Leader" tomes are filled with false hope for readers and potential big bucks for authors? A myth?! His answer:
No. It's that I realized early on that I didn't learn anything about leading until I tried to lead something. Only after I examined what had just happened and my part in it did I learn anything. Books and workshops gave me a way to frame what I had learned as well as some language to go with it. But none of that had any meaning at all without being tied to an activity.
What about the Leadership DNA part?
If you keep reading books but aren't leading any differently or more successfully as a result, you probably don't have it. That's fine. Exercise some self-leadership and find out what you are really good at. Then do it well. We need really good managers and solid employees who get the job done day after day. And they need the right amount of recognition for their contributions instead of being barraged with "leader this" and "leader that".
What's in this Leadership DNA that makes a person different?
2. "You're really an entrepreneur at heart."
For some reason, when I started out I never thought of my work as anything other than 'my business'. I ran everything as if I owned it. I don't know why. That's why I keep thinking about the DNA thing. It's who I was, who I am. But I did notice that other people I respected-- and who got things done--acted the same way. Honestly, I think leaders are really people who just won't take "no"for an answer if they are pretty sure they are right about something. We want to get out in front and shout "Let's go!"
That doesn't mean running over people or being disrespectful. To the contrary. I learned that if you want to take people someplace new, you have to respect their thoughts and experiences as well as always being straight and simple about what you are thinking. Chances are they'll show you how to actually get it done. But not if you haven't given them respect in the first place.
Looking back, are there specific skills that can be learned to use that DNA well?
3."Ask the right questions then shut up and listen. But actually listen."
I came from a financially poor family in a time when many of my childhood friends were equally as poor. It wasn't expected that we would go to college. I was even discouraged from going to college for reasons that seemed quite valid to my family. But I found ways to make it happen that didn't place any burden on them.
College taught me how much I didn't know. And I discovered that I have two characteristics that 'conventional wisdom'--at least in the U.S.--would have me doomed to leadership failure.
- Public speaking doesn't thrill me although I like connecting with people.
- I'm introverted according to any measure you choose to use.
But my engineering training taught me how to ask meaningful, probing questions. Aha!
I began asking questions (doesn't take long) and listening, really listening, to the answers. Do you know how much you can learn if you do that?! So I realized that I could play down my areas of discomfort but still lead as a result of how much I was learning. When it was time for action, I pretty much knew the whole story.
It's strange. Ambitious people often get up in meetings thinking they have to show everyone how much they know. They believe that they'll automatically be viewed as leadership material as a result.
I wouldn't have had the confidence to lead on certain issues as often as I did had I not soaked in the collective knowledge and wisdom of the people in the room.
After the recent Leadership Series I was eager to hear Joe's reflections on the topic. Once we began talking, I was struck by his emphasis on learning leadership by "experiencing" leadership. I confess, it fits with what I've been emphasizing but it was unexpected in it's intensity. He was quite adamant about building people through experiences and letting them--and the organization--determine their capabilities as a result.
Robyn McMaster sparked my thinking, too, with how Brain Myths Shape Your Choices.
What are the conventional wisdom myths and brain myths that seem to be impacting Leadership in your organization?
If you enjoyed this post, I think you'll want to read:
dna graphic from www.csb.yale.edu/.













Hi Jim, I was very interested in what Joe K. said. In many respects many folks don't take ideas learned in MBA courses or books and test them out in real life to see how they really work. True learning is about doing. If folks just read and think about the ideas only in the context of a course or don't remove them from the bookshelf to test them, they more or less stand still as Joe K. suggests.
On the other hand when you try out a new tactic and it doesn't go just the way the prof or the author suggested, then why not do some tweaking of your own? Here's where the real leadership learning takes place... in the problem solving to find out what works well for you.
I learn from many leaders, in fact I enjoy learning from diverse leaders because they approach things so differently. Just this evening I was in a meeting and a regional manager of a large insurance company made several suggestions about organizing leaders in ways I had not considered.
Guess that's why I need Joe K., yourself, book authors and so many others. I have so much to learn on this journey!
And thanks so much for the reference to my post on brain myths that hold many folks back.
Posted by: Robyn | September 18, 2007 at 09:34 PM
Hi, Robyn,
The more I listened to Joe talk about his life, the more I realized that he used just about every learning tool and technique known to humanity. And he continues to focus on learning every day.
Your" brain myths" post jumped into mind because of all of the myths that he discussed as a result of constant, hands-on learning. I also think he's a great example of multiple intelligences. Now I wish we had videotaped a lot of the sessions on making changes that he did with his organization. It wouldn't have been appropriate, but would have been a terrific tool for our own learning.
Keep posting!
Posted by: Steve Roesler | September 18, 2007 at 10:16 PM
Hi Steve
Normally I don't comment when I just totally agree with a post - and therefore have nothing to add, but this time I just couldn't 'leave' it!
I recognise many 'self-learned' experiences in the interview with Joe K - specially number 2 rings a definite bell! - and am so looking forward to the book!
Robyn, hadn't seen your post yet, so thanks for that too Steve, great 'connection'
Karin H. (Keep It Simple Sweetheart, specially in business)
Posted by: Karin H. | September 19, 2007 at 09:17 AM
Glad that it struck a chord with you, Karin. And do check out Robyn's article.
BTW: Welcome back. Hope that weekend away was refreshing!
Posted by: Steve Roesler | September 19, 2007 at 10:58 AM
Hi Steve
Refreshing? Yes and no ;-)
(Eventually we turned it into a 'work-holiday': fitting a floor and scribbling down new thoughts on our visions-purpose-mission ;-))
Karin H.
Posted by: Karin H. | September 19, 2007 at 11:24 AM
Karin,
Did you scribble your visions-purpose-mission on the newly fitted floor?
I'm trying to get a sense of your working style;-)
Posted by: Steve Roesler | September 19, 2007 at 04:39 PM
Hi Steve
;-) don't think my better half and his fitting nephew would have approved of that:
http://www.thekissbusiness.co.uk/2007/09/ever-wondered-w.html
As soon as they had finished one area of the whole room, placed the dining table back I took out my notebook (my faithful companion where ever I go/are) and started my scribbles.
(And then I always have to hurry to copy scribbles into a word-document before I can't read my own scribbles any more)
Does this make it a bit clearer/simpler ;-)
Karin H.
Posted by: Karin H. | September 20, 2007 at 04:09 AM
Perfectly clear now, Karin.
It also sounds as if you were the supervisor :-)
Posted by: Steve Roesler | September 20, 2007 at 07:42 AM
Hmm, no comment ;-)
Karin H.
Posted by: Karin H. | September 20, 2007 at 08:04 AM
This is interesting and a theme I have faced a few times. I like what Google call it - "Leadershape Development".
Posted by: Scott McArthur | September 21, 2007 at 05:29 PM
Hi, Scott,
I didn't know about the Google phrase. It's not only catchy but says a lot.
Now I have a little more online investigation to do;-)
Thanks for stopping by and leaving the tip!
Posted by: Steve Roesler | September 21, 2007 at 06:09 PM