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Beth Robinson

OMG. I cannot think of a faster way (and, yes, I think that includes non-criminal versions of sexual harrassment)to get me looking for a different job, ANY different job, even if it involved taking money from my parents to pay my mortgage, than my manager consistently making statements like that to me with the approval of top management!

It is really scary to think that there are companies that buy that training.

Steve Roesler

Beth,

It does happen, it is happening, and it's important to recognize it when it appears on the scene.

If someone chooses to opt-in to that kind of "experience" on their own outside of work, that's an individual choice. You now have me wondering: If HR depts. are conducting training for every imaginable form of real and imagined harassment, where is their discernment on these kinds of interventions?

Lisa Gates

Oh this is really a difficult post to read. In part because I took the aforementioned training (on my own) in 1994, and it was one of the best things I've ever done. I did 4 courses with what is now called Landmark, although I have to say I never drank the recruiting Kool-Aid. I (and nobody else as far as I can tell) was never torn down or ripped apart, although I was forever altered. Shifted. Changed.

In 2003 I was volunteering for a nonprofit whose board president "mandated" everyone in the organization to take the Landmark training. I objected because the mandate was contrary to the values of the organization (autonomy and personal responsibility among them). And his mandate carried a threat of "not being a right fit any longer if you don't."

His actions caused a huge rumpus and he resigned after several months of havoc, including the loss of several big, long-time donors.

Moral of the story: Model your learning. Be your learning. If the learning is paired with leadership and grace, the trickle down will be natural AND freely incorporated.

The other moral of the story: Reality is not objective.

Phil Higson

I'm so glad you've written this Steve. I saw Alexander Kjerulf's post this morning and read the Fast Company article in full. I have to say I can fully understand yours and Alex's responses and some of the comments that have followed on both sites.

Interestingly, one of two of those comments seem to have supported Flores (though not mine - I had to compose several drafts before I managed to compose myself!). Alex has posted a very reasoned and detailed reply which is well worth reading.

Steve Roesler

Lisa,

I have no objection to any adult knowingly and voluntarily opting in to whatever kind of "growth" activity they think is a match for them at the moment.

It is the combination of mandate + the model represented in the article that violates, rather than builds, individuals.

Steve Roesler

Phil,

Thanks for citing the conversation on Alex's blog. I would direct readers to your link to follow the various points of view.

Bud Bilanich

Way to go Steve. Good one!
All the best,
Bud Bilanich

Michael Lee Stallard

Hi Steve,

Thanks for explaining the link to Erhard. These methods are repulsive and reminded me of Edgar Schein's article about the brainwashing techniques he studied during the Korean conflict and how such methods are used at times in organizations. Here's the link to the Schein article: http://www.solonline.org/res/wp/10010.html

Michael

Howard Schumann

Most of the criticism comes from those who have received their information second hand. The vast majority of those who have done either est or Landmark have been extremely positive. There are more lies and misinformation about Werner and his programs than for any other personal growth program.

One wonders why this program has been so threatening to the scientific establishment, the right-wing anti-cult crusaders, and those who thrive on putting anything down that is of benefit to a great many people.

The stories about cults and brainwashing are ludicrous nonsense. It only took me one half hour of the est training in 1974 to find out that the ground of being of the training was love and support. The training was challenging and the fact that people's lives were transofrmed over the course of two weekends was one of the most inspiring things I've ever seen in my life.

Why can't others see that? It makes me wonder with all the lies and cons people are surrounded by these days if it is even possible any longer for people to recognize something that is true, honest, and full of integrity.

Steve Roesler

Howard,

I would have to wonder, if it is true, why there would be so many lies and information about that program vs. all others if there weren't substance to the comments after so many years. I don't condone passing judgment based upon second-hand information. I have heard both pro and con comments from participants.

The issues I take in the post above are:

1. With company-sponsored "personal growth" that places participants in a threatening position regarding their jobs if they choose not to go along with such an approach.

2. Personal growth activities are just that. If one decides to "do some personal work" and understands the methodology applied (in most cases they don't because such methodologies wouldn't survive the light of day if published in advance), then it is a matter of individual choice.

3. I would have to question one's definition of "love" if it is connected to the application of profanity and degrading language. If "truth and honesty" are the real intended product, then both should be spoken in a spirit of love so that they can more easily be heard. No one who ever loved me spent their time calling me names and cutting into the core of my being.

Howard Schumann

I'm a film critic but you wouldn't rely on my judgment if I reviewed movies that I hadn't seen. Whose judgment do you think might be more reliable - someone who spent seven years in an organization, participated in as many as ten weekend trainings, and watched the lives of their two children turn around after taking The Landmark Forum, or someone who has gotten some word of mouth comments from others? My suggestion to you is to take The Landmark Forum, then we can talk.

Steve Roesler

Howard, actually I am quite familiar with the Landmark Forum and its process(es) and am pleased that it has had the impact that it has on your children.

The issue from my perspective is not about whether or not the Landmark Forum has positively impacted peoples' lives. I know that it has, as one of my employees has been to multiple weekends. My issue is that attending personal growth experiences should be the result of personal choice, not corporate directive. Since you are intimately familiar with the methodologies, you would recognize that "placing" someone into an intense situation is much different than "opting in" to an intense experience. There are many ramifications: legal, psychological, and otherwise.

Howard Schumann

Steve: Yes, I agree that it should be a matter of choice, not a corporate directive but as I see it, the forum can only be of benefit to people who are willing to be open and honest about themselves.

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